irishpat
Why does the UK have an official religion? Why is it not a secular state? It doesn't make sense to me.
Don't bring religous viewpoints into this please, I just don't understand why UK politics is under the influence of a religion.
83 Replies
irishpat
@deadshadow:
I believe in religion, as it exists, I don't believe religious beliefs however.
FappingBlackGuy OW;TheJosher
@deadshadow:
>Doesn't believe in religion.
>Calls himself a Satanist.
>Is actually just an Atheist.
>Attempts to persuade everyone Satanism is just Atheism.
>Is actually a huge flaming furry faggot.
arikisbeastley
I don't think anyone here is a heavy believer in any religion other than me, I believe in George Carlin's sun worship. Joe bless everyone
BreadWolf Weinerlord
@italianbadger:
I don't even get what the pope does. I have a somewhat religious Italian family (though I'm not so sure, myself) and I just don't get it.
ItalianBadger
@BreadWolf: He is kind of like the President of the Catholic Church. He is meant to represent everything the Catholic Church stands for. Each Pope has their own biases and stuff, idk much about this Pope. I was rooting for Dolan (he started in Milwaukee and was my archbishop). Dolan is ACTUALLY young and would've promoted a more open minded church, but alas. Another old guy.
BreadWolf Weinerlord
@italianbadger:
I think I understand. I wasn't sure if he had any responsibilities other than representing the Vatican/Catholicism and doing religious stuff (masses and services like that). Dolan also sounds like a pretty cool guy, shame he didn't win.
TheXRayFactor Based Deak
Replying to OP:
Do you really don't know why the UK has an official religion?
ghostface Reference
Replying to OP:It has one because it invented the Church of England religion and started the protestant movement. King Henry VIII invented because he wanted a divorce . Now most people who are Christian in England are a brand of the Church of England or Catholic. WE have a official religion manly due to tradition as the Queen is the head of the Church of England, Any questions?
ItalianBadger
@BreadWolf: I don't think they will ever let in an American. My friend said they don't give the Pope's postion to countries with power...whatever
ghostface Reference
@TheXRayFactor:It was but this one led to a civil war and the colinisation of American
aStingyMiser
Believing in Christianity so strongly is like believing The Crucible is an actual account of an awkward political status.
TheXRayFactor Based Deak
@ghostface:
I know, just pointing that out because you said it was the first movement...
TheXRayFactor Based Deak
@AStingyMiser:
Come on now, everyone knows The Crucible is a weapon developed to try to destroy the Reapers
ReservoirDog
@TheXRayFactor: Actually The Crucible is a battle royale that happens every year in Turkey.
JohnStephen
@FappingBlackGuy:
True Satanism is an atheistic religion. They do not believe in any higher power, it's all about true human desires and such. The stuff that Satan of the Abrahamic religions promoted.
The conversation about the Pope going on, I wanna through my two cents in.
I'm pretty surprised it wasn't an Italian pope. I mean, it usually is. I know that Ireland has one Cardinal voting, while Italy has 7. It's not like anyone was expecting the Irish guy to be pope, though.
It was unlikely he would have been South American because of their revolution theology, which is far too close to Marxism for the Church, and Marxism isn't exactly too accepting of the church. This pope is very hardly Argentinian, though. I believed he studied in Germany so that wouldn't have been revolution theology.
And finally, the thing about a black pope...
It's the same thing I think about Obama. Choosing the black pope will not show that the world is now accepting until we just see him as a pope, not a black pope.
ItalianBadger
@JohnStephen: Other then the USA, Italians immigrated in huge numbers to Argentina. He's Italian....also honestly, no Italian will accept a black pope. They are extremely racist people (I have family that proves that)
TheXRayFactor Based Deak
@JohnStephen:
Considering South America is the continent with the biggest amount of 'true' catholics (those that go through the rites and so on), it seemed to me that either this or the next one would be from there.
Also, there was some stupid speculation that they didn't want a Pope from Europe because they want a lot of tourists to go to the Vatican, which could be a way to raise some money in this economic crisis. I hope that wasn't the case, that would be disgraceful.
TheXRayFactor Based Deak
@italianbadger:
I didn't know there was a big italian colony at Argentina. Huh.
ItalianBadger
And here is my thought on religion:
I am Roman Catholic, however, I do not attend church regularly. I don't preach my religion to anyone, so no worries I'm not going to scold any of you. I feel that it doesn't matter who follows what religion. Being raised a Catholic only benefited me in the long run I feel. Why is it wrong to believe in something that only promotes love and to not fear death? I don't see why someone has to tell me what I believe in is "WRONG". I don't believe in a spiteful God. I don't think I'm going to be punished for lying to my parents, but at the same time it isn't bad to feel guilty about it (Lying is unnatural for humans). Nothing is wrong with being honest. I know that pisses people off, the promotion of guilt.
I could go on...
TheXRayFactor Based Deak
@italianbadger:
I just checked and found something that could be off, but is interesting
[i]Argentina on the other hand has 18 million which is little more than half of it's population. Three fourths of Buenos Aires the capitol of Argentina is of Italian descent.
Quindi this is why Argentinos speak Spanish with a distintive Italian accent.[/i]
ItalianBadger
@TheXRayFactor: Sounds about right to me lol. It really isn't something a lot of people know about Italians.
JohnStephen
Well, lot's of Nazis fled to Argentina after the war. Benedict probably owed him a favor.
BA-DUM-TISH
(actually, Pope Benedict XVI was only in the Nazi Youth because it was mandatory for all 14 year old boys. Benedict, then Joseph Ratzinger, and his family actually resented the Nazis. Benedict refused to attend any meetings. His cousin who had down-syndrome was killed by the Nazis. Also, he was part of the German Army, but only because of conscription)
But any, lol nazi pope whos also emperor of star wars!
JohnStephen
@italianbadger:
Something semi-related to this;
If you take the Religion that is converting as fact, then if a Christian converts someone to Christianity, he grants them everlasting bliss after death. If an atheist converts someone he provides nothing.
Before people get annoyed, I count myself as neither of those religions. I do not have anything against Atheists, only the Atheists who act high and mighty because of their Atheism. I don't like preachy Christians either, although I understand they are trying to help.
ItalianBadger
@AStingyMiser: Lol okay, but only truly psychopathic people take joy from it. Sane people don't LIKE to lie. My bad for the wording. (Proven with Psychology)
JohnStephen
@italianbadger:
Yeah, people tried to publicize the whole "Nazi Pope" thing. There was a picture floating around of him wearing his priest robes when he was younger, doing the one armed Nazi salute. It was actually just a picture from his ordination, where they had cropped out his other hand (which was also raised) and the second priest doing the same thing.
JohnStephen
As a little farewell and goodnight, I'll leave you with a story I heard. This story is actually very well documented, not just some old legend.
I can't be bothered to type it out so I'll just copy and paste
It's too long to post here, so here's a link to where I uploaded it on pastebin.
risaxis BANNED
I believe in michael jordan
irishpat
@TheXRayFactor:
I know why the UK has one. I should have phrased my question differently, I was pondering as to why the UK still has an official religion as I cannot fathom a reason as to why the UK does.
FappingBlackGuy OW;TheJosher
@JohnStephen: No, you're wrong. And if you dare use the argument that there was no 'above ground' organization of Satanists before Anton LaVey's Church of Satan in 1966, Herbert Sloane formed the Our Lady of Endor, Ophite Cultus Sathanas, coven in 1948. Sloane, like his followers, truly believed in a horned god they worshiped.
Before that, there were Satanic grimoires about worshiping demons and raising the devil written through the 1600's all the way through the 1800's. We are talking French Luciferian orders who advocated worshiping Satan as a theistic entity. Collin de Plancy is a notable example of this.
And all the way back in the beginning of Christianity, even before Christianity itself, there were the Gnostic sects, like the Cainites and the Ophites, who believed the Judaic god was nothing more than a false demiurgic figure and that Lucifer, Satan, was the true god. It is irre-fucking-futable that these sects wrote texts that the church later recycled into THE BIBLE ITSELF.
So fuck you. We aren't even talking about the witch covens who willingly admitted, at threat of fucking death, that they worshiped the Devil, Satan fucking Lucifer.
JohnStephen
@FappingBlackGuy:
I accept that, because there are many forms of Satanism. But LaVeyan Satanism is an athiestic religion, and this is the one that is commonly referred to simply as "Satanism". Theistic Satanism, which follows the occult and is theistic, is usually referred to as Spiritual Satanism.
So, when deadshadow refers to Satanism, it's safe to assume he's referring to LaVeyan Satanism and not any of the other ones you mentioned. Otherwise he would have made it clear which variant he was referring to because of the usual confusion between the two forms of Satanism, which annoys both sides very much.
aStingyMiser
@JohnStephen: Well documented in the same sense as the Russian Sleep Experiment? That story mentions "Babylonian writing," but not Cuneiform, also used by several other ancient cultures. And Cuneiform looks nothing like scribbles nor swirls. They're pictograms, they look like fucking pictures.
Oh, and "I don't remember the name?" I'm betting that's a ploy to make it seem like the story actually happened. They could've given it any name, but it would ruin the "immersion" when some scholar raised his hand and said "that's got nothing to do with Babylon." Instead, they added in a detail, and as a wise man once said, the key to a good lie is in the details.
aStingyMiser
Oh, and another thing. Was your story written at a time before primary schoolers learned who the fucking Mesopotamians were? Cunieform's pretty distinct-looking, ya know.
Here's what I believe to be an image of writing similar to that of the Babylonians.
Note the lack of any sort of swirling whatsoever.
FappingBlackGuy OW;TheJosher
@JohnStephen: You're, again, wrong. 'Spiritual Satanism' is what the Joy of Satan ministries pioneered. While they are theists, they don't believe in deities, or Satan, in the deific sense, but instead that they are fucking space aliens. You'll find that many Satanists avoid the term 'Spiritual Satanist', because they're obviously not conspiracy theorist National Socialists, which is what the JoS ministries preaches is Satanism.
Theistic Satanists call themselves just that, Satanists or Theistic Satanists. And the only reason they need to clarify that they are 'Theistic' in contrast to being 'Atheistic' is because every retard like you who read one wikipedia article, as well as The Satanic Bible, can go around making nonsensical claims as if they have even an inkling of understanding of what they are talking about.
Tell me again how it is logical to say 'I'm of X religion', but then also turn around and said 'if you actually believe in the god of X religion to actually exist, you're a retard because X religion is actually Atheistic'. Tell me fucking again how true Christianity has nothing to do with the Christian god, how true Islam has nothing to do with the Muslim god, and how true Judaism has nothing to do with the fucking Jewish god.
JohnStephen
@AStingyMiser:
I'll just answer your question right here with text from what I posted:
"I'll start with one that my sister told me about angels, she was told by a lecturer of hers"
I'm reciting it from memory from someone who was reciting it from memory from someone reciting it from memory. Of course things are going to be forgotten and phrased incorrectly.
About me saying "scribbles and swirls", neither my sister (the person who told me the story) nor I knew what the Babylonian writing looked like. Jesus Christ, get over me phrasing it wrong. The actual lecturer knew what cuneiform looked like, I'm sure he used different words than my sister, who told me the story a day or two after she heard it, did. And I'm sure primary school teacher have seen it before, not remember that he was very young so would have written very messily and the teachers wouldn't have been able to fucking recognize it as the language.
With the not remembering the name argument, have you honestly never forgotten a word before? This story is better documented than the Russian Sleep Experiment/Orange Soda chain mail. But once again, I'm not the fucking origin of the story. All I know is what I wrote.
FappingBlackGuy:
Ok, I guess I was wrong about that then, sorry. But what do you mean by the last part, when did I say any of that?
JohnStephen
@natehalodragon:
Because it's usually better to let this shit go all out in one thread rather than let it seep into multiple threads.
It's the internet, this shit is going to happen eventually.
FappingBlackGuy OW;TheJosher
@JohnStephen: That is the ludicrousness of LaVeyan Satanism, claiming something that would be theistic is actually something atheistic, and then that anything that is a theistic variant of such is actually a cheap imitation or misguided misconception.
It's not even an implication at this point. That is what it bluntly teaches, and that is exactly what their pretentious teenage followers preach.
JohnStephen
@FappingBlackGuy:
Speaking of something similar, have you ever heard the theory that the Abrahamic religions are actually dualistic, not monotheistic? It's basically that Yahweh and Jehovah were actually two separate deities, and that one of them, Jehovah I think, was the one who sent the commandments down which stated there was one God. It would be why God differs so much in personality, why he is referred to as the two names and why in Judaism it is a sin to say "Yahweh". It would also explain why in the story of Eden, God is speaking to another, although it is implied that it is Lucifer/Satan he is talking to.
FappingBlackGuy OW;TheJosher
@JohnStephen: I've heard of such. This is why the Jews hate the Christians and vice versa. They are supposed to be two different deities altogether. The original Christians blasphemed the Judaic god and claimed he was a false god, and that their god, the god of what would later become the new testament, is the true god. Some Gnostic sects took this a bit further and said that the true god was actually Satan/Lucifer/the Serpent. But the Gnostics and the Catholics disagreed on this fact and so the Catholics killed them and re-wrote their texts so that they could add them to their new holy book.
JohnStephen
@FappingBlackGuy:
It would make sense for the true God to the serpent, but only if the serpent is not Satan because of the whole "worships God" thing.
FappingBlackGuy OW;TheJosher
@JohnStephen: Satan doesn't worship god. That doesn't even come from Judaic or Christian sources, but instead Islamic sources. If this is what you're referring to, the fall of Iblis, Lucifer, was because he refused to bow to man because he only bowed to Allah. In Judaism and Christianity, Lucifer/Satan recognized himself to be greater than god and was cast out because he taught secrets, in his pride, to the angels, to then later come to man as a Serpent and teach him that they could 'be as gods' themselves and that Jehovah/Yahweh was impotent..
JohnStephen
@FappingBlackGuy:
I've always found the Islamic version, of God refusing to worship humans, more believable. Look, you obviously have a far greater knowledge of this than me, but didn't the switch of hierarchy between angels and humans come from the story of the angels coming to Earth and having giant children with the humans, which God destroyed with the Flood of the Noah's Ark Tale. And wasn't Adam referred to as the first angel, or as an angel of some sort?
darksoulguy
Well this exploded in to a pile of shit and my religion is one of my on making so I have nothing to add to this
irishpat
It saddens me when I see a person attempting to insult another persons intelligence when they obviously do not understand what grammar is.
FappingBlackGuy OW;TheJosher
@JohnStephen: There are several cases of angels turning away from god. For example, Lilith, after fleeing from god, tempted an angel, Samael, who turned against the other angels after her and slaughtered them. Lucifer taught secrets, I think Christians claim about Christ, to the other angels and so they turned against god and fell with him because such knowledge deified them. I am sure those who practice the Kabbalah probably claim that Lucifer learned about the Sephirot, made himself a god, and then taught this same knowledge to his fellow angels, and that after they were all cast out, they became the Klippot. But what you are referring to is the Nephilim, who were the angels who mated with the daughters of men. And you are right, that is one of the reasons for the flood, to wipe them out and replace the descendants of Cain with the descendants of Seth through Noah.
My knowledge of Adam isn't tradition, so I don't really know. I know certain sects honored him, as well as his son Seth, for various reasons, though.
Patjay
@deadshadow: You literally brought "religious viewpoints" into the 1st post. seriously i cant.
JohnStephen
@FappingBlackGuy:
All I know is that Cain lived on for many years because of the curse of immortality, and eventually founded the Brotherhood of Nod.
Peace through power, brother.
TheXRayFactor Based Deak
@JohnStephen:
The only thing this whole Cain conversation reminds me of is 'Stay awhile and listen!'
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