Eddie
Microsoft engineer on 4chan justifies a lot of problems with the Xbox One
Also first thing I want to say is that if you don't know about 4chan, threads 404 after a while and their content is no longer available. This pastebin was made with all the things the Microsoft engineer said.
Secondly the engineers proof is at the bottom and what he says checks out. (I personally DO believe this is legit)
The entire thing bounces around a lot, but you can easily get the most of it, but I think the arguments are pretty valid. I am actually leaning a lot towards Xbox One.
The only problem left is the always on checking every 24 hours. But the Microsoft guy said that he expects that to change after the facing at E3.
What do you guys think. Like I said I find myself leaning more towards the Xbox One now.
96 Replies
Eddie
The thread was originally on 4chan, but I figure I should credit what brought it to my attention
forcep BANNED
@ReservoirDog:exactly my thoughts, if I pay 20-30 dollars for a new game then it will be worth it in the long run
Deleted User
Someone sent me this earlier so i'll just paste what i have from my earlier response:
"eh, I just dont give a poop about anything other than games in my console. It's a Game system. Not something i'm going to use for my tv or whatever.
To me, his explanation comes off as dismissive. As "i know what you want, don't question it." As if what they're doing is *justifiably* horrible.
That's the thing. It's anticonsumer. Whoever is saying "too bad, get over it" as opposed to the person saying "i see what you're saying, we're listening" is not going to win me over.
Sony feels to me like they're trying to listen to me. They care. They actually heard our concerns and addressed them. Microsoft just seems to be ignoring whatever we say because they know that "they're right".
Well u know what? No. I don't want to do business with someone who looks down at me. Who doesnt care about what their customers say."
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to think of microsoft in this way. I try not a fanboy either way.
I just hope they address/fix these concerns because from what I'm seeing right now, i'm not planning on buying the One anytime soon.
/inb4yellingatmefornotseeingityourwayeventhoimnotsayingurwrong
Eddie
@MadBadCoyote:
Well the thing is that if this is true then Microsoft IS right.
It's just like Steam. Everyone hated it at first, but once they actually realized what steam was doing they loved it.
The same thing is happening here. In order for Microsoft to lower the price of games they have to do something about the used game market.
If they can do that then they can reduce the price and give more money to the DEVELOPER to actually make games better rather than to gamestop.
And as far as people saying I want my gaming console to play games not watch tv, WELL THEN DON'T FUCKING USE THAT FEATURE!!!! Do you currently use every single application and use that the xbox360 currently provides you? Do you use every single program on your computer? No. Then do the same thing with the tv feature on an xbox.
You can enjoy paying $60 for your game and then getting $5 back on it from gamestop, while I enjoy getting my game initially for $40 or $50. That's $10 I'm saving and only $5 you are, and you don't even get your money until later.
And on the issue of always online: I don't get why there is so much fuss over this on the internet. In order to bitch about it on the internet you must have some form of internet connection and are therefor not affected. So all the people on this site, all the people who tuned into internet streams of E3, all the people bitching on reddit and other forums SHOULD NOT BE COMPLAINING!
Besides technology has to move forward at some point. You don't see companies making sure they're products work for people without electricity or some shit. Unless we want to be stuck with the same stupid offline consoles forever someone actually has to take a step forward into the darkness and move things forward, and Microsoft was the company that was brave enough to do it.
joellau1234
He actually makes a lot of sense.
However, I wish they could somehow make offline work because that's actually important to a lot of people (e.g. overseas military) and not abandon discs and ownership rights because they want to "advance the tech".
Just make the fucking console DL only and eliminate discs if that's what you actually want.
Deleted User
@Eddie:
My area's internet goes out from days to weeks at a time, during which i can only use my phone to see stuff online. I would definitely not want to be locked out of using something I already paid for in the first place. Steam at the very least has an offline mode. Here, it's super intrusive to make it impossible to play games on my *game* console leaving me only with tv features i wouldn't use ever.
Used games: i don't buy a lot of games on consoles, but when i do, it's usually new. Used games on consoles are a bit different for me. A friend might recommend a game to me and let me borrow her copy. (Which is how I found the arkham series, which i love) The drm on used games pretty much eliminates that possibility.
Eddie
@MadBadCoyote:
Well then buy your own games. Your friend can't loan you steam games and you seem to like that service. What is so different here? And since every cried so much about not being able to give friends games they still have the possibility to give friends games.
And lets imagine that Xbox One is out and the arkham series is on it. Here's how it would go: Your friend recommends it to you, you buy it cheap maybe $20, now you get the game forever instead of having to borrow it, and now you gave money directly to the developer thus allowing for more games to be made.
If they allow all this free trading of games then game prices go up and developers lose money which would end up destroying the entire gaming industry.
And Steam only had offline mode for computers that you have signed in on, checked in on the internet, and have pre-downloaded to your computer, which is exactly like the One.
also you say "i don't buy a lot of games on consoles" yet you are worrying about the rare chance that your internet goes out for over 24 hours and the only thing you have to do is play games that you don't buy much of on a console.
Also how would you have TV but not internet? I don't think many people at all have 2 different tv and internet providers.
And " i don't buy a lot of games on consoles, but when i do, it's usually new" THEN YOU HAVE NO REASON TO COMPLAIN AGAIN
TheOnlyHuman
The no used game thing will bug me always not because I buy a lot of used games but because I have an xbox and so does my brother, which means if he buys a game I have to wait for him to not be playing his xbox (which only happens when he is at work) to be able to play anything on my gamertag that he bought.
I know it is not that big of a deal but I have been having to do that for arcade games and games with online passes forever now and I am sick of it. There are games that I have gotten to play maybe once a month for a year or two now and I have barely gotten anywhere in them because I can play for an hour or so when I do get a chance to use his xbox.
I understand that my situation is in the minority of people but I just wish that they would let you use the same disc for two accounts without charging for each. It just sticks that arcade game DRM onto everything and I will lose one of my primary leisure activities.
Deleted User
@Eddie:
I understand why they see the first part as important to them. That being said, most people around where i live barely have internet at their houses at all. Most of my friends don't have a way of accessing xbox live and don't/can't take advantage of online features at all.
"And Steam only had offline mode for computers that you have signed in on, checked in on the internet, and have pre-downloaded to your computer, which is exactly like the One"
The difference being that I could have the disk in my hand that i payed for (new) with the console i bought, yet not be able to play it because of internet being dumb. Say, with steam, i can assure myself I can play (whichever game) even if the internet goes out as long as i have downloaded it already.
"..yet you are worrying about the rare chance that your internet goes out for over 24 hours and the only thing you have to do is play games that you don't buy much of on a console."
That happens often here. Totally sucks. Yes it is an issue.
"I don't think many people at all have 2 different tv and internet providers."
I do...
"And " i don't buy a lot of games on consoles, but when i do, it's usually new" THEN YOU HAVE NO REASON TO COMPLAIN AGAIN "
Not when I get into a series that is old. In those situations i literally cannot find a new copy.
Eddie
@MadBadCoyote:
Ok so I also looked up sharing games and DRM on xbox.
1.Can access your entire game library form any other XB1 using your login.
2.Can share your entire game library with up to 10 other users on XB1.
3. Can also give physical disk to another account once.
So that means you can share every single game you own with 10 people w/o having to sign in. You can then continue to share it digitally an infinite number of times as long as your account is signed in. And then finally you can give the physical disk once. This is what most people like to rip at, but they fail to realize the other options for sharing games. Besides digital is better and it is the way technology is moving.
Eddie
@TheOnlyHuman:
Your brother can put your account on his list of 10 accounts that he shares games with and then you have access to his entire library. You don't even need the disk.
Eddie
@MadBadCoyote:
For the old series that's why there is digital. You can download it. There will never be running out of copies again.
I also didn't realize that you were still living in 2001. Technology has to move forward at some point. If you are constantly losing internet for weeks at a time like you say you are I don't even see the reason for you owning a computer of any sorts or using the site as much as you do.
I mean honestly I can't stop you from buying a PS4, but I will be over here having a better time with Steam and Xbox One while you are paying more for games and having no new features besides a hardware upgrade.
Deleted User
@Eddie:
"...I don't even see the reason for you owning a computer of any sorts or using the site as much as you do."
..
that wasn't very nice, Eddie
"I mean honestly I can't stop you from buying a PS4, but I will be over here having a better time with Steam and Xbox One while you are paying more for games and having no new features besides a hardware upgrade. "
I'm not trying to fight with you! I'm just saying why I don't like most of the new "features" in the One. I wouldn't be able to use most of them, i'm sorry
Eddie
@MadBadCoyote:
I don't see the point of owning a $600 - $1000 product that is meant to connect to the internet if week long internet outages are such common occurrences for you.
Guest
arguing over which console is best is like arguing which toaster is better
just buy the one that has the games you want
that said i bought a ps3 to play final fantasy 13, got burned that round
TheXRayFactor Based Deak
I honestly fail to see how the fuck the used game market is the root of the problem (the problem being the high price tag on games in general, that is).
ItalianBadger
@TheXRayFactor: I think everyone can agree that if Xbox lowers the prices of the games, the used game issue isn't a problem.
Steam has low prices and sales constantly, so I don't mind buying from them since I can afford $20 up front, not $60. If that's how the Xbox is COOL!
I also rarely buy new games unless it's a series I really love, I'm constantly playing catch up so if they stop developing a certain game by the time I get to it...I have no option but a used game. HOWEVER, if there are digital options that are CHEAP, AWESOME.
I'm waiting and seeing how both consoles play out. I'll honestly probably end up with both at some point in the next 2 years because video games and clothes are the only two things I throw my money at.
LaughingMan9
Speculation is fine and dandy but I want to see implementation and results before they can have $500 out of my ass.
1
In Australia the xone is $600. It is also region locked. The PS4 is $550, and not region locked. This means I can import a PS4 from the US for a fraction of the price. On top of that I get to share all the games I want. It really is a simple choice. I just don't love halo enough, especially the recent ones, to stick with xbox.
TheXRayFactor Based Deak
@italianbadger:
However, it's not up to microsoft or sony to lower the prices. It's up to the distributors.
tafdsga1
personally I am sticking with PS4, and keeping my 360, I love steam and they say you can't share games but I've done so before, and I do like cheap games but I also don't like being watched all the time by kinect.
ghostface Reference
I'm gonna wait and see which console supports the most things in the UK, but I am leaning towards Xbox one
ItalianBadger
@TheXRayFactor: I'd like to see figures that show how much developers lose from Gamestop....I mean people pirate video games isn't that worse? I have no idea how the video game industry works, I more so know the television industry....so if anyone can find that information that'd be great to look at.
ghostface Reference
@TheXRayFactor:But if Microsoft go digital, the price should go down, to the price PC games are
ghostface Reference
@LaughingMan9:yeh, Im hopin my November there will be some news on what we work where I am
forcep BANNED
@italianbadger:My thoughts exactly, and repotedly 10 friends will have access to your library of games at any time, as long as you aren't playing, which is basically like sharing except easier.
TheXRayFactor Based Deak
@ghostface:
Not necessarily. It's up to who distribute the product to decide its price.
forcep BANNED
@TheXRayFactor:but if you download it digitally then microsoft can determine the price, so yeah gamestop will have a higher price, but theoretically you could just download it, and you do have a 500gb harddrive
TheXRayFactor Based Deak
@forcep:
That's just... wrong. Especially considering we are talking about a console platform.
JohnStephen
I find it hard to believe that this thread is gone and only exists on pastebin. Why wasn't this archived.
I'll be getting a PS4 maybe. Probably after a long while, I'll have my PC by then. I won't pre-order, that's fucking retarded. They're going to order so many it wont matter, they're non-perishable goods.
I still don't like some of the shit they are doing, such as always on camera and microphone. Also, I prefer the games that PS4 has so far.
Eddie
@JohnStephen:
It's how 4chan works. Threads 404 after some time. Lost forever and to never be found again.
Like this link: https://images.4chan.org/b/src/1369965999502.jpg
JohnStephen
@Eddie:
Here's an example:
http://chanarchive.org/4chan/v/70294/bleszinski-on-xbox-one-used-bl
1
@italianbadger: Games media people keep saying how much it costs to make games, and how gamestop is killing the industry. Well last year Ubisoft had 1.1b euros revenue and 900m euros profit. So as far as I can tell it's pretty cheap to make games.
JohnStephen
@1:
"Well last year Ubisoft had 1.1b euros revenue and 900m euros profit."
"Ubisoft had 1.1b euros revenue and 900m euros profit"
"1.1b euros 900m euros"
"euros"
"s"
It's euro, the plural is euro, the singular is euro.
IT'S NOT HARD TO REMEMBER!
M4xwell Insanitarium
@JohnStephen:
The formal titles of the currency are euro for the major unit and cent for the minor (one hundredth) unit and for official use in most eurozone languages; according to the ECB, all languages should use the same spelling for the nominative singular.[88] This may contradict normal rules for word formation in some languages; e.g., those where there is no eu diphthong. Bulgaria has negotiated an exception; euro in the Cyrillic alphabet is spelled as eвро (evro) and not eуро (euro) in all official documents.[89] The Greek "cent" coins are denominated in "lepto/a." Official practice for English-language EU legislation is to use the words euro and cent as both singular and plural,[90] although the European Commission's Directorate-General for Translation states that the plural forms euros and cents should be used in English.[91]
JohnStephen
@M4xwell:
But I'm pretty sure eypo is used as well. Strange.
Wait, are you backing me up or not?
1
@JohnStephen: Yeah, I really should have remembered that. I used to speak French. I just woke up though, give me a break.
TheXRayFactor Based Deak
@JohnStephen:
21.9 begs to differ
"The euro. Like ‘pound’, ‘dollar’ or any other currency name in English, the word ‘euro’ is written in lower case with no initial capital. Where appropriate, it takes the plural ‘s’ (as does ‘cent’): 'This book costs ten euros and fifty cents'"
JohnStephen
@TheXRayFactor:
"In all EU legal texts, the nominative singular spelling must be 'euro' in all languages ('ευÏÏŽ' in Greek alphabet; 'евро' in Cyrillic alphabet). Plural forms and declensions are accepted as long as they do not change the 'eur-' root."
http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/euro/cash/symbol/index_en.htm
http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/publications/publication6336_en.pdf
"On researching the issue I found, that the European Commission did adopt Euro as the the plural of Euro.
However, rather bizarrely the Directorate-General for Translation (Eu body) advise using the plural form Euros for any publication intended for general publication."
Basically, everyone is meant to be using "euro", but "Euros" is to be used to in official documents so that people with no understanding of the euro system can understand.
- -1
TheXRayFactor Based Deak
@JohnStephen:
I fail to see how "everyone is meant to be using euro". What you posted only proves that you can either use euro or euros.
M4xwell Insanitarium
@TheXRayFactor: it's the same shit as 'aluminum' or 'aluminium', there are norms of saying certain words now. Before, there was one, but due to the recent changes in diversity, they now tolerate (accept) different terms for certain words THAT would make sense (euro and euros).
JohnStephen
@TheXRayFactor:
The .pdf explains that, in English, the plural of euro is euro. This is what you are meant to use when speaking English. If you are not speaking English , you use whatever form fits your language.
Officially it's "euro (s)" and "euro (p)", but to avoid confusion between languages "euro (s)" and "euros (p)" is used.
Everyone here speaks English, there's no need to use the incorrect "euros".
TheXRayFactor Based Deak
@JohnStephen:
Interesting that the rules for translated text is different than the ones for text originally in english. Huh.
Deleted User
Sure smells like Microsoft's dick in here.
1
The point is, games are cheap to make. Ubisoft has enormous margins. ENORMOUS! There is no excuse for not allowing used games or shared games.
aWSOMN360
@1: Would you rather have to trade the game in to make its cost 30$ or would you rather have it at a base price of 30$ and keep it forever?
Eddie
@1:
The reason is because currently they boost the price of games to make up for the fact that the game can be traded.
aWSOMN360
@1: Thats the point of putting a price on loaning game and digital download, less middleman/legal bullshit for trade in or loaning = lower price in games.
1
@Eddie: I would have thought second hand games only cost publishers money when the game has online. Single player only games cost the same as multiplayer games. The last two years we have had online passes that only come with new games. The game prices haven't come down. The point I'm making about Ubisoft's margins is that even when games can be traded in, they're still making nearly 5x what they're spending. How much more money do they need? There are no economic factors driving publisher's desire to end used games. They aren't on the brink of collapse due to used games. They are just hoping to increase their margins from 500% to 600%. No consumer should support that.
JohnStephen
@Eddie:
But people are content with buying them for this price, why would they stop charging us this much?
aWSOMN360
@JohnStephen: Because a lot of people actually arent comfortable with the prices and leave console for steam.
1
@aWSOMN360: 1.1b revenue, 900m profit. Profit = revenue-costs. Costs include all those things you just mentioned. Is anybody listening to me!
aWSOMN360
@1: Where exactly are you getting this information? also let put an average yearly earning at 50,000, now if their cost is only 2 million that would mean they have 40 employees, are you suggesting Ubisoft only has 40 employee?
aWSOMN360
@aWSOMN360: edit, 200 million cost 4000 employees, man im a retard, your story checks out i guess but still.
1
@aWSOMN360: Here is my source.
http://au.ign.com/articles/2013/05/15/ubisoft-discusses-next-gen-plans
aWSOMN360
@aWSOMN360: actually wait, 2100 people work at ubisoft Montreal, and they have 26 studios, that means the have some where around 500,000 employees, your stories still retarded.
Eddie
@JohnStephen:
Well there are clearly a lot of people who aren't or else the used game market or steam wouldn't exist.
Also just because people are content doesn't mean they wouldn't like cheaper games. Cheaper games make consumers happy. Happy consumers boost sales.
forcep BANNED
I want my games to be cheap, fun, and overall worth it.
JohnStephen
@Eddie:
Yes, but if used games are killed then they will have to buy new or not at all, and if they already have the console they'll buy new.
If they don't do it to make profit, GameStop and the other stores will.
Eddie
@JohnStephen:
But with used games gone the price of new games will go down, and the price of old new games will go really low, and the ability for flash sales will be there.
Pretty much they are trying to compete with steam.
All of these arguments are the same ones from when Steam started up.
Basically Xbox One is trying to make Steam with consoles.
TheXRayFactor Based Deak
@JohnStephen:
The text I posted referred to their rules for translating text into English. For the translated text, you have to use -s; meanwhile, in original text in English, you can't use that termination.
Fucking weird, man.
TheXRayFactor Based Deak
@aWSOMN360:
How exactly? To do so, they would have to monopolize the market of the xbox games by being the only distributor, and that would be extremely damaging for them.
What they are trying to do is plain to see, in my opinion. They are trying to make the big corporations happy by killing the used games market, so they would line up with them and not their competitors (sony and nintendo)
aWSOMN360
@TheXRayFactor: But doing that alone with out any compensation for the consumer would be suicide, they aren't cutting out used games anyway, they are putting a fee on it, which in a sense would reduce the price of game by removing licenses required by the dev/ publisher for the resale of games.
TheXRayFactor Based Deak
@aWSOMN360:
I don't see how that would reduce the price of games. The game industry, as far as I can tell, has never been based around ever-lasting selling copies, they have never really taken into account the money they would get years after release date. That's because you can't be even remotely sure about it, as there are a lot of important factors they can't control in that sort of estimation.
It's not the "death" of used games market that brings lower prices, it's the contrary (it's important to say that it would only slow down, as the amount of cheapskates in the world is incredibly big)
Now, about the "no compensation for the costumer", there's a thing. Even if suddenly sony announced all their games were going to cost only 10 bucks, there still would be lots of sales for the xbox. Know why? Because the big companies (you know, the ones responsible for marketing those big games) want money. They just wouldn't release for the sony console anymore. After all, what mostly matters in the consumer's decision is the games, not their price. Sure, there would be people that would go for the sony console, but there wouldn't be big games in there, only small, indie ones.
That being said, I'm not saying there is no way to get better prices on consoles (without lower taxes, that is). I just don't see it happening in a generation that is not digital-only.
Eddie
@TheXRayFactor:
Well that is Xbox's goal. They want to become digital only. They have having day one digital releases and making you download all your games from the disk and not having to use them physically (so they are trying to turn physical into digital).
And steam doesn't monopolize the games it distributes. Right now on steam for pre-order Saints Row IV is cheaper before its even released than any other console. Steam has plenty of games that are available for other consoles and they in no way have a monopoly yet these games continue to be cheaper. This is because game companies no longer have to worry about the licences for there games being transferred. Also with these directly digital services there is no need fro publishers. Developers can publish the game directly giving them more money (Also games like Bayonetta wouldn't have to worry about finding a publisher and be forced to be WiiU exclusive)
And the Prices for digital stuff like this is set by "Big Old Evil Microsoft" it's set by the developer/publisher of the game. Before anything goes on sale on Steam it is approved by the developer/publisher. Sometimes Steam might recommend a sale or price, but they can not do it with the developer/publisher.
It's going to be a big change for this generation, but someones got to do it sometime if we ever want to get out of the old $60 physical to cheaper digital era. Microsoft is the company brave enough to take a hit (The same hit valve initially took with steam) in order to achieve this goal. And it may seem mean when they say "if you don't like it don't buy one" but it's what they have to do in order to make their plans succeed.
TheXRayFactor Based Deak
@Eddie:
Fucking great, I had written down a bunch of paragraphs but they got Mike'd to oblivion.
If that truly is their plan, I'm highly skeptical. They should have released the new console last year, then. That would bring over most of the consumers, allowing the whole thing to work out without major problems with the renowned companies.
Anyway, this gen will definitely be interesting. Shit will get real. Especially if Steambox happens.
1
@Eddie: "And the Prices for digital stuff like this is set by "Big Old Evil Microsoft" I assume that was a typo and you meant *isn't set by Microsoft.
Which is a very important point. It makes me doubt that game prices will come down at all this generation, or at all. If they do come down, the driving factor will not be digital downloads or console specs or anything like that. Free-to-play could bring prices of other games down. Also I guess there are some people who would rather buy ten $2 iphone games, or a bunch of indie games, to get them through a year of gaming than a few $60 AAA titles. I think that is a factor that has the ability to bring down game prices, more so than anything Sony and MS do.
Eddie
@1:
Yea that was a typo. Thanks for catching that. I'm not going to edit it because then the spacing gets all fucked up, but thanks.
Free to play games are becoming bigger and bigger with F2P games such as World of Tanks and Planetside 2 coming to consoles, so you're right those too will help lower the price of games. It will also probably mean a lot more Free to Play games coming in the future.
As far as F2P goes my only concern is that as more and more games start using this model they don't get Free to Play and Pay to Win mixed up. I see a lot of games doing that.
1
@Eddie: I hate free to play games when I'm just trying to level up or earn the game currency or whatever, and someone can just come along with all their purchased gear and destroy me. That is the scenario I think of when I hear free to play. I think these days they do it better than that. I think generally any game where the balance between pay to win and play to win is unfair will not be popular. So hopefully "pay to win" games will become less and less common as developers come to understand the best balance.
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