ClearLensCap
So yeah, they're trying to copyright the word 'react' or something and they're sub count is going down like crazy. I've always hated them in the first place because I just hate reaction stuff so this is pretty damn cool.
^ A stream of the sub count
66 Replies
Deleted User
They made FilmCow get political. Which is a big deal.
Neal ROLF
So I don't like the fine bros. and I really don't like most reaction videos. But I feel like people are going insane over this. Their subs are not that low compared to what they were. I mean I'm looking right now and it is still almost 14 million. If this was to be able to get a reaction show on TV or to stop people from stealing their content nobody would care. I really don't like them or care, but I dislike people making this into a shit show anymore.
But I do like the reaction from other content creators.
Neal ROLF
@ClearLensCap: Not trying to be mean. But if you wanna link things we have some nice threads that help tell you how.
My_nama_Jeff Oil
I got a joke.
So you're a girl in a club, a guy comes and grabs your butt. You won't be able to react because the fine brothers will sue you.
Credit to Keemstar for making the joke.
My_nama_Jeff Oil
But in all seriousness, I thought Pyrocynical did a good job at explaining it, as well as boogie like what @Zac said above.
cannonofdoom Superannuate
I also feel like this has been a huge overreaction. The Internet loves to be outraged.
My_nama_Jeff Oil
@Neal: The thing is though what counts as "Stealing their content" that's what all the outrage is about. Like would people like Pyrocynical or Leafyishere still be able to make reaction videos? Would H3H3 still be around? A lot of YouTube channels react to videos or events and it's because of this "React trademark" that everyone is scared of.
mlp_midnaspet Homo-Queen*
@cannonofdoom: more than anything its the principal of someone so big doing something so shitty
Neal ROLF
@oilfire30: I get that. And I don't want Chadtronic to go away or Maximillion to not be able to react to new Fighting game news. But I know copyright law a little. And what they wanted would never be given to them (though they can trademark their shows that use the word REACT). Some of this is a huge overreaction we should be mad at them but pretending that this will end them is far too much. Fair-weather fans are jumping off, and maybe some long time ones. But the majority of their audience don't care about other youtubers or internet culture. Be mad and let people know. But unless they lose 2 million subs from their React channel and like 10 million from their main one acting like this is ending them is stupid. The fine bros are trying to trademark something and then they look like morons for failing. If they had said nothing this would have happened. But they weren't quiet, while that is good it makes things seem like they weren't going to be overly malicious.
I love all the videos from other creators tearing them apart to be honest though.
Neal ROLF
@cannonofdoom: This is a really bad thing, and they shouldn't get away with it. But actin like this is worse than ISIS or the "Militia in Oregon" (aka white terrorists) is what is really annoying.
My_nama_Jeff Oil
@Neal: The thing is, what if getting the trademark gets into their head. Think of the YouTube copyright system, it would be so easy for ANYBODY to use to remove YouTube videos and if the fine brothers got the trademark, them and anyone in their React World could destroy a persons channel in a matter of minutes. Let's take a look at what the YouTube copyright system is and how easy it is to abuse.
For context This is one of the videos that was taken down.
This is the result.
Neal ROLF
@oilfire30: The problem with that logic is that the trademark couldn't affect any videos made before said trademark. And they know that, so if they went after any videos made before the trademark they'd lose the trademark. Also they know that they'd be fucked if they did take down videos all the time. They haven't yet so let's not pretend they have the trademark and are striking people.
Also the example you used wouldn't be affected by their trademark. And the takedown was due to Youtube incompetence not the fine bros. Let's take some of your concern and point it at both Youtube and the Fine Bros.
And "getting the trademark gets into their heads" they already think they can and should get a trademark so it already is there. I suggest that you don't keep telling me who knows and tell other people. Let them know what is happening and that it could turn into censorship, but is not censorship yet.
My_nama_Jeff Oil
@Neal: A: Inever said anything about taking down vids from the past, just the future.
B: That was an example of how easily the fine brothers could do it, not that they did do it.
C: I meant that for overly negative reasons which they don't already have.
D: OK OK, I'll stop giving my opinion in this response format. What I said was just a response and not meant to start an argument. Whatever you believe in is "fine" by me (sorry for the shitty pun) and since you want this argument to stop, I will go and ask them instead of telling you.
Neal ROLF
@oilfire30: I don't see this as an argument. And I don't disagree with you, but you don't need to convince me this is bad. Just that the Fine Bros. are actually losing "significant" subs. And again the example is more showing how bad Youtube copyright system can be abused. They can already do that, but don't (as far as I know).
If you wanna talk about it go ahead. But you don't need to convince me I'm not defending them just tired of hearing the same news and seeing nothing actually done.
My_nama_Jeff Oil
This is going too far, 40k tweets about The Fine Bros, Jesus Christ that is insane.
My_nama_Jeff Oil
@Neal: I'm serious, like a couple of tweets here and there are expected, but over 41K tweets is just absurd.
Neal ROLF
@oilfire30: Okey. It's just that they had like 14 million subs and 5 million on REACT channel so I don't think of this as a big outrage.
absolutezilch Hey Big Zam!
Trademarking a real word does seem like really shoddy business practice. People hate King Games for this reason and I'm surprised someone as connected to the web and its community as the Fine Brothers didn't think this would get blown out of proportion, especially since reactionary content is seen as a bit derogatory in the first place.
To conclude, here's a great video made by Psychicpebbles parodying the Fine Brothers:
absolutezilch Hey Big Zam!
@absolutezilch: Wow that was a great post if I say so myself. Good job ending it with a diffusive funny video as well.
cannonofdoom Superannuate
http://money.howstuffworks.com/trademark.htm
If you think Fine Bros shouldn't try to trademark REACT, then you don't really understand how trademarks work or what they're for. King got shit because they went after broad trademarks that were never going to get approved. The Fine Bros are seeking a specific trademark to protect their intellectual property. You might think their videos are generic, but they have a specific style, and they have a right to protect that style from getting ripped off. That's what they're trying to do. It's not at ALL the same as what King tried, or what SONY tried with Let's Play.
My_nama_Jeff Oil
@cannonofdoom: Pretty sure King still has a trademark over "Saga" and has kept it since early 2014.
absolutezilch Hey Big Zam!
@cannonofdoom: Sure, you can explain this to me and their 'Update' video will try to clear that they don't have ill intentions behind this but let's not pretend that the way they originally penned this down on paper seemed like a good idea. Especially considering that content creators constantly keep talking about how the YouTube copyright takedown system is a bit of a non-functional system due to the algorithms that are in place to classify a large chunk of media. Not to mention, people have started getting hit with copyright strikes already and you can best bet that they've effectively created an ecosystem in which exploitation of content creators and people who are not savvy with legal definitions are going to be exploited, if not by lawyers protecting the Fine Brothers' trademarks, then by lawyers promising to protect smaller channels against the Fine Brothers' trademarks.
Although I have to say, I admire you for siding with the unpopular opinion in this admittedly, considerably overblown debacle of which the Fine Brothers have become easy targets to shit on. It does provide me with some perspective on the other side but I still don't think that this is a supportive ecosystem just yet for people who don't want to belong under that corporation's umbrella. I don't think that their actions will cause them to fade into obscurity and I hope that this does lead to supporting smaller content creators eventually.
sonny88p
Replying to OP:
First: get all your facts straight
Second: form your opinion AFTER that
Third: understand that the you without all the facts is not as smart as the you with all the facts
Neal ROLF
@oilfire30: They have it and were being complete dicks with it. But then settled down so they wouldn't go to court and probably lose the trademark. And now Activision owns them so I expect much less of that behaviour from them.
ClearLensCap
@sonny88p: I honestly just don't give a shit what they did, I just hated them already in the first place.
deadshadow foking furry
@Neal: i don't care if they shot themselves in the foot, i don't care for what they do and watching it burn is kinda funny
Neal ROLF
@deadshadow: But you specifically said you don't want to know what happened. So that comment was useless. You should have just not commented. I asked then why did you comment and this is not a reasonable response.
deadshadow foking furry
@Neal: i didn't know everything but i was told it had to do with them harassing elin and a lot of them trying to stop people from doing their "original" idea of reacting to stuff
i have seen links to their react stuff but i never watched it as the premise seemed dumb also this is the internet i can shitpost if i want its all i basically do on chat
Deleted User
@Neal:
I don't expect to hear anything about them now that Activision owns them. They are just going to let it dig up money for them in the background.
absolutezilch Hey Big Zam!
@cannonofdoom: Thank you! I appreciate your appreciation of my argument formed after minimal research. :p
cannonofdoom Superannuate
@oilfire30:
Loud whiners who don't understand the difference between copyright and trademark won. I'm disappointed.
My_nama_Jeff Oil
@cannonofdoom: Trademarks aside, this seems kind of shady and scammy alone. 2 requirements for joining React World is a revenue share (Obvious, as they said in their video) and total control over your YouTube account, and by revenue share, I mean 20% of all money made from your YouTube account, regardless of whether or not it is a react video.
Lewis spears does a better job at explaining things than I can.
Deleted User
@oilfire30:
That's how being part of a YouTube network works. They were just trying to make it seem like something different.
My_nama_Jeff Oil
@cannonofdoom: But here's the problem: They shouldn't have the right to license their format in the first place, something like TV is fair enough, but what the fine brothers is doing is like the first person to do a Loot Crate saying 'Anyone who makes a Loot Crate unboxing video must pay me royalties even though I don't own loot crate.' That isn't licensing, that's a pure scam and so is this. Fine bros wanting to take money from newly starting YouTube channels who want to be similar to them.
@BBurn0: Exactly, but with much less benefits.
cannonofdoom Superannuate
@oilfire30:
They absolutely have the right to protect and licence their format. A more correct comparison would be: you have the right to sell burgers, but you don't have the right to sell Big Macs. Fine Bros make Big Macs.
My_nama_Jeff Oil
@cannonofdoom: Have you ever thought to yourself 'Heck, these 2 people who are interviewing random people about videos that they don't own are making money off of that'. What the fine bros are doing more of is: The fine bros want to make burgers, so they look at the big mac and then add some extra ingredients and call it Large fine. They are taking content, adding a little bit of difference to it, and then calling it their own.
Giving them the benefit of the doubt, they could theoretically only license 3 quaters of what they want to license. Ever heard of Seniors react? No, it was a show on YouTube similar to Elders React that coincidentally stopped around a month before Elders React was announced. Reacting and React have been around before the fine bros and is practically it's own genre, so why should they have the right to copyright a genre? Also, they tried to claim Try Not To laugh... that was created years before the fine bros started it.
But other than that, can they license it, barely. SHOULD they license it morally, absolutely not because that would just add to the thing they are trying to stop: YouTube becoming corporate. Opinions are opinions, I have mine, you have yours, and I have said mine, feel free to say yours.
cannonofdoom Superannuate
@oilfire30:
Your argument is flawed. You use the word "trademark" but you talk like it's a Copyright. The Fine Brothers tried to TRADEMARK their specific brand within the large genre of Reaction Videos. To be clear, they never tried to copyright reaction videos, or claim that all reaction videos were their intellectual property. Their mistake (which Burnie talked about on the podcast) was choosing REACT as the name of their brand, and underestimating just how little the internet understands copyright vs trademark and how vitriolic that misunderstanding would be. They never tried to license ALL reaction videos. That's just what the internet, in its infinite wisdom, decided was what they tried to do.
bubblejuice kose mochen
@oilfire30: You can't say that The Fine Bros are just "adding ingredients" because their videos actually follow the follow Fair Use law for Copyrighted Material. Their videos are "transformative" because it shows only portions of the source material and they provide commentary and criticism during and after viewing the original work. If you're gonna say that they're stealing from a property they don't own then the same can be said about Let's Players. Achievement Hunter doesn't own Minecraft but they make money off videos, posters, and shirts.
Also, "should they license it morally." You do understand that their not making videos in their bedroom. Fine Brothers Entertainment is a company with over 50 employees. Company's are amoral. They don't believe in right or wrong. What they do believe in is what maintains their image and what keeps them making money. Beni and Rafi saw that they had a huge following, and that they were making money in a new and growing media. So, they did the most rational thing and attempt to expand their business. How? By trademarking and licensing their format.
My_nama_Jeff Oil
@bubblejuice: Your second point proved my last point, did you watch both of their videos? They said in the first one "Digital media has become more corporate, the spirit of wanting to do things differently to traditional Hollywood is starting to dissipate". They said they want to do things differently when they said they don't want to do things like Hollywood and now they are doing things exactly like a company would, traditional Hollywood style.
My_nama_Jeff Oil
@cannonofdoom: At first it was a mistake, however now I can make it into a joke because their past has shown that even without a trademark they have gone and called people out and MANUALLY removed other peoples videos. They even said in their apology, and this is a direct copy and paste quote "The concerns people have about React World are understandable, and that people see a link between that and our past video takedowns, but those were mistakes from an earlier time. It makes perfect sense for people to distrust our motives here, but we are confident that our actions will speak louder than these words moving forward."
They may make it a "Trademark" but they might (notice I said might) use it as an excuse to exploit the YT copyright system even more than it already can be. That's what people are afraid of more than the trademark itself.
cannonofdoom Superannuate
@oilfire30:
People aren't afraid of what the Fine Brother might actually do. They're cavorting gleefully in a hyperbolic circle jerk. The internet loves to hate, and today they hate the Fine Brothers.
Jade
I couldn't care less about it because we all see it's dumb and another way for them to make money on other people's content.
However, the scary part is that they are pioneers at this. They said content pioneers, which they are not. But they are pioneers at copyrighting things that everyone does. Sony tried to do it with let's play and if enough companies try this, a few will slip through the crack and succeed. That's the scary part.
But for real, the fine bros have always sucked.
cannonofdoom Superannuate
@EnlightenedOne:
Please learn the difference between trademark and copyright.
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